Stealing

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ColinJEly
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:50 am
Location: melbourne

Stealing

Postby ColinJEly » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:02 am

Perhaps our West Australian members will have some local knowledge of this and would like to comment?

http://sppiblog.org/news/environmental-pretexts-for-land-grabs-from-private-citizens

gwmbox
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:48 am
Location: Blackwood Valley in the South West of WA
Contact:

Postby gwmbox » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:36 am

Interesting article and my initial thought was 'what is the greater good'?

First I have been to Jurien Bay but I am not a local.

I can see the arguements on both sides, one that the owner should be reasonably compenstated and the other being that the water use within WA in particular is paramount for development. In saying that however I am personally against the said development as Jurien Bay should be left as is.

Unfortunatly though most do not see it that way, they want the development to go ahead and the almighty dollars speaks loudest.

I feel the pain that must be going on with this by the owner and again personally feel they should be rightly compensated, however trying to fight the government on this will be very tough as farmers, unless they can unite, are a lonely voice.

The article is on a site I have never been to before and without your post I probably woudl have never read or come across it. These things need to be more widely published in both the print and electronic media to have any hope of reversal of the decisions made or at least make the general public aware of it.

On the global warming side, the fact is that the government and its current advisors on it have no clue to what is going on in our climate and as such our childrens children will pay dearly for it. I am a strong believer that our planet moves through cycles and this is just one of them, albeit it mght have accelerated due to human numbers it is still part iof an overall larger cycle.

I have seen the EPA pick and choose what it wants to do many times in both suburban and rural areas over the years and until the wider community combine and say enough is enough very little will change.
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Julene
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Brisbane, and Chatsworth, via Gympie QLD

Lack of compensation under environmental laws

Postby Julene » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:36 pm

Dear gwmbox,

Farmers ARE uniting! Along with lots of people who are very concerned by how property rights are being destroyed by environmental legislation! The best known case is Peter Spencer (although it took 40+ days of hunger to get into the mainstream media - and even then there were a number of efforts to discredit him). Go to the Agmates community support group for Peter S and check it out: http://agmates.ning.com/group/peterspencerhungerstrike

The Agmates community was very instrumental in lobbying to defeat the ETS last year and now they have taken on the issue of property rights. Peter Spencer will be travelling around Australia to keep the momentum going (once he has recovered from his 52 day hunger strike....) Join up and get involved.

Now is the time for anyone who has struggled with draconian bureaucracy (over what is best for their land) to stand up and join the momentum. Remember that most of what Peter Andrews would do is banned by the same environmental bureaucracy!!

Given that this is an election year, now is the time to push for return of property rights, which will then allow us to apply Peter A's ideas - for the good of the environment! We should also lobby for funding of research into NSF. (Before the last election, the Government promised $6 mill - however, as we know, they lost.) It's very possible that Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce would be open to supporting NSF.

Cheers,
Julene

gwmbox
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:48 am
Location: Blackwood Valley in the South West of WA
Contact:

Postby gwmbox » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:00 am

Lobbying will only go so far. My thinking is that we need to turn the attention of getting the message out to everyone and not those that just make decisions. As my better half said what is the point of lobbying the governemnt if they have a bureaucracy that is agains NSF practices as it will get nowhere.

Is it not better to market the NSF principles to the wider community directly through the farmers and better yet non farmers such as city people. If we can get more people (voters) to understand what NSF is we might have a better chance of the politicians listening.

While Abbot and Joyce might be open to the ideas of NSF (unknown), little will be done as the bureaucracy will still run the show.
--
- VERY new to farming - have a small farm
- Property Interests - NSF, Evergreen, Dorper Sheep and Horses
- Other Interests - Web Site Design and IT
- Eagleburra - eagleburra.com.au | Dogsites - dogsites.com.au | That Net Site - thatnetsite.com

gbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:03 pm
Location: Mid-north Coast NSW Australia

Postby gbell » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:04 pm

Alarming indeed. I think all Australian landholders should be on 'red alert' as the various coming crises affect the food supply. I believe government will take over properties of any useful size to force farmers to produce in ways the government deems necessary to ease the crisis.

"Take over" can be in many forms, but I think the net result will that you will be very compelled to do things the Monsanto/agrichemical/industrial way.

Shirley Henderson
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 4:03 pm
Location: Thirlmere

Postby Shirley Henderson » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:04 pm

I wonder who holds the shares in those companies. I wonder who is making all the money. If we are forced to use their products isn't that a corrupt way of controlling the markets? Isn't that against the law?

Julene
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Brisbane, and Chatsworth, via Gympie QLD

Postby Julene » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:50 pm

Hi gbell,
Or maybe we'll end up as a country of tree-growers and nothing else (importing our food at exorbitant prices)!

gwmbox, I hear what you are saying. Let’s brainstorm.

I think the momentum has to come from the rural landholders/farmers who are trying to follow Peter’s ideas. The process has already started with (a) individual people carrying out their own “trial projects” on their land, and (b) NSF Chapters around Australia, and (c) of course, this website. However, these are slow-moving processes. For example, it can take a number of years to see outcomes on your farm.

The Natural Sequence Association, which oversees the Chapters, describes itself as non-political – having a supportive role instead. (Although they do encourage writing to Ministers.) The vibe I get from the forum is that most people feel timid about getting politically active (or too busy, or maybe just tired!) And I understand this – it takes a lot to get up and say, “This is what I believe in and I’m going to fight for it.” It’s easier to do if you have others standing beside you, too ….

I get a lot of inspiration from the Peter Spencer Support Group on Agmates because these people are super motivated and positive – they absolutely believe that they can make a difference. I believe Agmates was set up by a guy called Steve Truman. A friend of Peter Spencer contacted Steve while he was on the hunger strike and they started the Group. It has snowballed from there. At the moment, the plans include: a rally at Parliament House next Tuesday (NSW Farmer’s Federation has joined in by providing free buses to Canberra), a rally at NSW Parliament end of February and then lots of meetings around the country (I am helping out with the Brisbane meeting).

I have a bunch of ideas BUT at the end of the day they depend on other people joining in. As Peter Andrews knows very well, one person (or even a few) is not enough.

The ideas I have (writing them down as I think of them) are:
1. Those who have trial projects which are showing results could (a) hold regular open days, (b) badger local journo’s to visit and report, (c) badger local landcare groups to visit.
2. We need more official research. Results from Barramul (really good) were published in 2007 but I can’t find anything since. More research means more money. This where politicians come in, unless a private person would come up with some money. (Wonder what Gerry Harvey and Michael Jeffery are up to?)
3. Peter needs to have a go at the Murray-Darling system. Would be massive if he got to prove his theories there. Again, politicians.
4. Badger Farmers associations, such as the NSWFF, Agforce in Qld, etc.
5. As mentioned previously, badger Barnaby and Tony Abbott
6. Start up a political forum for Natural Sequence Farming – either the NSF website, or maybe Agmates – to discuss ideas, like the ones above, and organize and motivate etc.
7. Get involved with the Peter Spencer campaign for restoration of property rights.

In the immediate term, I think this last one is actually really important. Many of the struggles we have with implementing Peter Andrews’ ideas on our own properties come from the prohibitions of government legislation. We can’t grow willows along our creeks, we can’t let weeds grow, we can’t change the flow of creeks etc. We don’t have the right to do with our property what we want (and what we believe is actually good for both ourselves and the environment).

Peter Andrews knows this only too well. As Duane wrote in a paper updated in Sep 2008: “Not withstanding the potential for personality clashes, NSF also raises a myriad of policy issues at every level. In NSW for example, an application to do an NSF project could trigger no less than eight Acts.”

If we want to see change for the better for farmers, we must join with other farmers to get legislation changed. Thousands are expected to show up at Parliament House next Tuesday. As I mentioned there are free buses from all around New South Wales and also a couple leaving from Toowoomba (will pass through towns along both the Newell and New England Highways). The contact number to book a seat is 1300 794 000. Let's all do what we can.

barnabas
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Stealing

Postby barnabas » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:23 am

Hi ColinJEly,
I have checked your link and this is evry good there is so many knowladegable informations. I really thsnkful to you for sharing this useful information's.

Thanks!
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Last edited by barnabas on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

barnabas
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Stealing

Postby barnabas » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:07 am

Hi ColinJEly,
I have checked your link and this is very good there is so many knowledgeable information's. I really thankful to you for sharing this useful information's.

Thanks!
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