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Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:37 pm
by ghosta
Ian thanks for your reply.
The article refers to the removal of wood including willow debris floating in the lake. The source of this debris is not stated. You ASSUME it is the result of some sort of willow removal program, Im not sure how you came to this conclusion. The articles referes to hundreds of uprooted trees, broken branches, and storms.

Probably helpful if you read the article before foolishly commenting.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:50 pm
by duane
We have two local NSA Inc chapters in the Queanbeyan area.

They have been reporting on the ongoing willow program there in the Molongo and Queanbeyan Rivers.

Willows were cut and left on the banks as in the Mannus disaster.

Neither the authorities nor the regulators want this information to become public in case there is a claim for compensation.

The real truth will be revealed, even if the newspapers give us only MISinformation.

Make no mistake, the vast majority of the floating trees, debris and logs in Lake BG are and were willows.

And my sources are highly reliable.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:37 pm
by ghosta
Duanne, you say the willows were left cut on the banks of the river (unsubstantiated report) yet the article you posted says broken branches and uprooted trees in Lake Burley Griffin. If you are goin to criticise government authorities in future, the facts should actually fit your story.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:47 pm
by Ian James
This is part of the article that Duane posted.

Storm debris still washing up in lakeBY BREANNA TUCKER
10 Jan, 2011 01:00 AM ... 42784.aspx
More than a month after heavy storms lashed the capital, authorities are still pulling hundreds of tonnes ofWillow debris from Lake Burley Griffin.

Broken limbs and whole trees continue to flow down the Molonglo River into the lake and the influx of floating timber is not expected to ease any time soon.
We are talking willows here are we not?


Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:03 pm
by duane

For the record, the red willow insertion is mine.

Canberra Politics prevented a full and frank disclosure by the local newspapers.

But my sources are impeccable.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:17 pm
by ghosta
One things for sure, if I became a thief or murderer and you guys were the prosecutors in court, I wouldnt need a lawyer to defend myself and have the charges thrown out!

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:26 pm
by duane
Your Honour in the State vs Ghosta we would like to submit the following evidence: ... river.html

Why did this bridge wash away now? It has been suggested that the government Willow tree removal program in the ACT may have been a contributing factor. When the Willows were cut down on the river's bank's the cut down trunks and branches were stacked up into piles. These piles were picked up in the fast flowing floodwater and washed down to lodge against the bridge restricting the river's flow and eventually blocking it.

See the photographic evidence for yourselves in the article.

More evidence of BUREAUCRATS failing and costing you the taxpayer heaps.

Further proof:Taken from ... l=auLoxmyf
(Newbie) 1:46 pm, 09 Dec 10
So all that debris from the cleanup of the willow trees upstream has reached Lake Burley Griffin. How much damage will the trees do when they hit scrivener dam gates?

I trust those responsible for not cleaning up after themselves will be footing the bill to clean up (and repair) Lake Burley Griffin ... ra-images/ ... 73&mpsec=0 ... 435164575/

It's plain to see the willows in this video ... e=canberra

The BUREAUCRATS can see first hand the real cost of their WONS policy with this's embarassing as it is right at their front door.

The Willows Task Force will have a lot of explaining to do.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:33 am
by Ian James
I don’t care what anyone says, clearing a waterway of vegetation without first establishing a replacement stand whatever the reason or justification is an act of gross environmental vandalism and dare I say it, foolishness.

Allowing a waterway to become eroded and damaged because of a preference for one plant type over others is short sighted and negligent management.

Damage to infrastructure is regrettable but it can be rebuilt. Damage to the environment as a result of blatantly destructive and risk full environmental protection measures are infuriating. It should not have been allowed to happen.

It reeks of careless, ideological ham fisted incompetence. It’s not good enough.

Defending the actions and decisions that resulted in this destruction is incomprehensible.

No one is going to be lined up and shot but for god’s sake, accept responsibility and learn so that mistakes of this magnitude can be avoided in the future.

Surely a waterway lined with willows is the lesser evil. Trust in nature to provide a healthy environment, surely it is clear that we with all our technology and good intentions have not improved the Australian environment one iota since our arrival on these shores.

If we all just got up and left the Australian environment would rebound with incredible haste to a vibrant healthy state without any interference. The reign of the willow would be short and very beneficial, future generations of vegetation would thrive and native fauna and vegetation would regain dominance in the luxury of the void left by the willows demise once nature had run its course.

The willow is here to stay and in any war against it there will be no winners, only losers.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:07 am
by ghosta
Ian I agree with much of your post. There are important lessons for those doing any kind of work along our waterways and lets hope that lessons wil be learned.

The willow removal program is driven by much more than simply "a preference for one plant type over others" in most instances, although reason enough in out National Parks and reserves. No matter how compelling the reason, I do agree it must be done reponsibly.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:23 am
by Shirley Henderson
Hello Ghosta, I am interested in what it is that you do. Do you work for the government? student? land owner?

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:06 am
by Ian James
Ghosta, the point I am making seems to have been lost on you.

The situation with the willows is mistakenly referred to as a war, it is not; it is only a theatre in a greater struggle, merely a battle so to speak.

The attitude and actions directed towards the willow program are perfect examples of institutionalised ineptitude.

The mistakes that have been made are clearly of the highest order of incompetence. I have great difficulty even expressing the depth of my feelings of outrage and insult.

For an institution trusted with preserving and managing our environmental national treasures and assets to be capable of acting in such a blind and single minded manner is indescribably confronting. It is an act of Stalinist proportions. Questions must be asked about the basic processes and structures behind such an atrocity.

Seriously, this government department has discredited itself completely.

And you speak of credibility?

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:35 am
by duane
If you read my latest post at viewtopic.php?f=12&t=840&p=3567#p3567
you will see that we have dismantled what was a brillantly designed system for de-energising the force of water in flood times....our wetland systems.

94% have been destroyed including many of the great systems along the Murray Darling. Sturt described these as 50 miles long and 50 miles wide.

The drainage, incised system we have inflicted on the landscape means that a flood event causes huge catastrophic changes in the landscape as we have and are witnessing.

There are no processes or components in the waterway systems to naturally de-energise the destructive force of todays flood waters.

There are no NATIVE plants capable of withstanding this powerful force.

Once when our wetlands were intack, they trapped all this floating debris, filtered it out and pushed it to the high ground and deposited it there as mulch to fertilize the land. They de-energised the flow and pushed water against water, the most efficient way of taking energy out of water.

Today, it all rushes downstream taking everything in it's wake.

Because of the changes we have caused to our rivers and wetlands, to re instate this same pattern and function we need plants in our waterways that can withstand this tremendous water velocity, to de-energise and filter out both the floating debris and to allow the water to overspill its banks gently.

This is where WILLOWS come into their own.

They CAN grow in the stream bed as well as along banks...they can replace the functions of our previous wetland plants.

They act as primary colonisers and eventually as a nursery for our native Phragmites and rushes to come back and get a foothold once the system has been secured.

The landscape is BLEEDING to DEATH......running rivers of bloodied sediment and water.

The WILLOW is the only suture that can stop the bleeding. Allow them to stay and stabilise the system and the natives will follow as secondary and tertiary colonisers.

It's as simple as 1,2,3,

It's not 2,3,1.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:29 am
by ghosta
Willows are the only plant that can do this?

I have no problem using willows providing they are of the variety that dont have the potential to spread uncontrollably (either because they are if the hybrid variety or can breed with hybrids if introduced). I realise most here dont give a damn if they do, its someone elses problem.

Why put all your eggs in one basket? We need diversity, and one good reason is to ensure the vegetation isnt all killed off if a disease or pest outbreak occurs, as is now ocurring with weeping willows (one of the more inert species) in some locations. What happens to siimple ABC then?

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:19 am
by duane
Q: Suggest another BETTER , alternative genera to willows???

Better still, suggest a number of alternative genera and explain WHY they would be better and work as effectively as 'the worlds premier riparian primary coloniser'.

Re: The War on Willows

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:06 am
by ghosta
Your starting to get the idea Duanne. Instead of attacking the bodies advocating willow removal and ignoring the reasons they give, why not say, "Ok I dont agree or even care about your reasons for advocating willow removal, but we will go along with your program if you can come up with some viable alternatives for us to use in NSF, AND any willow removal is done in a manner that protects our catchements. And we will cooperate in any reasonable manner that will help."

That way the authorities may say "These NSF guys are adopting a reasonable attitude, we could do some research on this, and perhaps we should look at what else they are saying".

Yes, its a different approach. Battles are often won by cooperation rather that fighting.