How can this site be a beacon for NSF?

Any questions or comments you have about Natural Sequence Farming processes. These could include general questions or ones about your personal problems.

PLEASE NOTE :
We do not endorse any answers from anyone in this forum except Peter Andrews himself.

Please remember, Natural Sequence Farming has to be tailored for your specific problem and to follow general advice may create more problems for you.

Moderator: webmaster

duane
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Postby duane » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:49 pm

Jenni said:

Shouldn't we farmers be allowed to make money as well as care for our land. I'm sorry but the idea of the noble peasant is a bit on the nose to me.the best way for NSF to shift from 'alternative' to 'mainstream' farming is for people to make money out of it. I don't think it is so important who owns these ideas it's important for them to be practiced.


I agree with you 100% Jenni....farmers should be the real Aga Khan's of the planet. Richly rewarded for their efforts in supplying all of us with healthy, nutrient dense food and fibre (free of poisonious chemical) while agrading their environments and building both their environmental capital and their bank balances.

gwmbox
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:48 am
Location: Blackwood Valley in the South West of WA
Contact:

Postby gwmbox » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:38 pm

jenni wrote:While it is entirely noble to act without renumeration if you couldn't make money out of NSF noone would do it. Shouldn't we farmers be allowed to make money as well as care for our land. I'm sorry but the idea of the noble peasant is a bit on the nose to me.the best way for NSF to shift from 'alternative' to 'mainstream' farming is for people to make money out of it. I don't think it is so important who owns these ideas it's important for them to be practiced.


We are straying way off topic here but...

I agree with you and have not said anything to the contrary, rather what I have attempted to make clear is that principles such as NSF, are of great value to 'EVERYONE', especially to enable farmers to do exactly as you have said, care for the land and make some money along the way - why else would you farm otherwise... and the fact is (especially close to where I live) there is little money to be made in conventional farming today.

My whole issue and purpose of making posts in this thread in particular is that for anyone NEW to farming and NEW to NSF there is little help to get started, little reference material, an un-organised set of individual web sites, no actual training available (whether done on a cost basis or not to learn from PA or a team of trainers), no case studies, little reference of what others have done, little discussion on what does and does not work ... do I need to go on? Oh and by the way these are simply my views from what I have come across so far, yours may differ greatly.

I guess I look at it from a point of view that I 'was' all gun ho on setting up NSF here and hopefully have my property as an example for others in the area in a few years, and while I can go through the motions of booking PA etc there 'apparently' is a long line to have that done, plus the obvious costs that for me make that an option not possible.

So in the end I have decided to go my own way, take the information from the books (which I am sure PA has got a good income from), try a few things based on what I have read about NSF, permaculture and evergreen among the few I have been gathering info from and see what happens, trial and error and learn on my own.

Cheers
--
- VERY new to farming - have a small farm
- Property Interests - NSF, Evergreen, Dorper Sheep and Horses
- Other Interests - Web Site Design and IT
- Eagleburra - eagleburra.com.au | Dogsites - dogsites.com.au | That Net Site - thatnetsite.com

Julene
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Brisbane, and Chatsworth, via Gympie QLD

Postby Julene » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:23 am

Hi Greg,

Some resources for you. :)

There is a series of Youtube videos of Peter Andrews explaining his techniques at Barramul Stud. Here is one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx94ZVxmoVU

There is a series of Youtube videos of Peter Andrews in the Burdekin area. The production quality is less and at times Peter's words are inaudible, however he demonstrates his techniques. Here is one where he builds a dam in a creek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76fWInus5YQ

This Youtube video shows research by ANU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiFfWrVzJWU

This is an interesting Youtube video illustrating contours: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fayywpnFBAA

There is a thread in this forum on contours: http://www.naturalsequencefarming.com/f ... sc&start=0

Here is a newspaper article on Peter Andrews in Central Qld last week: http://www.naturalsequencefarming.com/f ... sc&start=0
I got it by going to Google News Australia and putting Peter Andrews into the search. It's just a general interest article though.


I am wondering if there is any way of making it easy to import photos and videos to this forum, as I think that would help a lot. I am not that computer savvy.

Lonnie and Duane: Could we set up a section in the Index for Videos of Peter doing his Field Demonstrations? Is there a way of regularly getting videography of Peter when he is out and about????

Duane has mentioned that there are plans to have a section for Case Studies. Hopefully soon?

Cheers,
Julene

Julene
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Brisbane, and Chatsworth, via Gympie QLD

Photos

Postby Julene » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:57 pm

I've just realised Shirley did a post on how to upload photos: http://naturalsequencefarming.com/forum ... .php?t=691. I would still like to know whether it's possible to upload video?
Julene

duane
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Postby duane » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:23 pm

CASE STUDIES:

You only have to ask...at NSF we DO try to please and respond to constructive criticism.

View Mulloon Creek Natural Farms.....after the rains at http://www.nsfarming.com/casestudies/

Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Postby Ian James » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:45 am

I just scanned through the latest posts in this thread after reading the first posts at length.

I would like to add my thoughts here.

I want to get out and teach NSF, I have formed a NSF association, I have as many as 200 farmers who have shown an interest. They want me to come to them and teach them. They are willing to listen to me. I do have an understanding that I would like to share further although I need further instruction myself.

I am a farmer, it is all i do. I have difficulties keeping up with the workload on my own property.
I have been told I should not consult farmers professionally on matters NSF.
I can not afford to spend time off my farm without reimbursement.
My wife is my greatest supporter yet she complains that I can not afford to spend so much time off farm on matters NSF.

I have been told that I will be part of a endorsed NSF education program and will be "licenced" to consult in the name of NSF but this does not seem to be occuring.

Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Postby Ian James » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:12 am

One farmer has offered a large block of land for me to use as a demo for other farmers.

I held a field day at this site and a large number of legit broad acre farmers came to see Peter and all made motions of support for the demo site.

This offer is about to be withdrawn after 1 year of inaction.

I am too busy on my own farm just trying to keep it viable.

I am losing suport.

Farmers are looking at the imediate $$ not the long term$$

This is why nothing is happening, if there were imediate $$ then uptake would be dramatic.
see my post on Precision farming on the NSF is working in WA thread.

Has anyone found a way to make imediate $$ from NSF? ( I mean from agri applications not from the disemination of information) If so please let me know so I can start yelling from the roof tops.

duane
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Postby duane » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:16 am

Ian

It would be good if you could get some background facts together on the
200 farmers who have shown an interest (in NSF). They want me to come to them and teach them.


If you could get an idea of how many acres these 200 farmers have that could be used for NSF demonstration purposes, this along with other considerations would have a powerful influence on the bureaucrats and policy makers.

Ian wrote:
Has anyone found a way to make immediate $$ from NSF?


I recall Peter said on a visit to WA to a number of farmers "Instead of investing your $250k or $800k, do only a small section of planting in your BEST paddocks and save the rest".

That was good advice as it turned out because many of those farmers planted their whole farms out and lost the lot.

It has to be a hard decision for farmers to make...their livlihood depends on getting a return; they owe the banks big time; their kids are still in school; they want food on the table etc etc etc.,

The Avon Chapter Inc was the first est in WA thanks to Ian and Jodi's efforts.

But they are only two people and they need help and resources. Ian is BUSY with his farm. How can he get the help he needs?? to disseminate the info and word on NSF.

Well firstly, let me suggest that the Avon Chapter hold regular meetings and reports its AGM to the National Body.

At the AGM if it has not meet could consider and delegate the following tasks and outcomes:

Objectives – work through the Natural Sequence Association Objectives-
1. To support the vision of Peter Andrews and natural sequence Farming
2. Develop and plan outcomes for education and training, landscape planning and implementation and policy liaison.
3. Set Short term and long term goals. Short Term – contact list of networks groups in our area to promote the Avon chapter. Mid Term – Get Peter Andrews to visit and apply what he is doing to our climate and our stakeholders and the 200 farms. Long Term – Implement vision statement of Association applied to the Avon catchment and conditions.
4. Present Information of Natural Sequence Farming outputs showing environmental, social and economic benefits.
5. Maintain the momentum of the movement.
6. Marketing and communication of the corporate image.
7. Be responsible for licensing applicants for local chapters and licensing other interested parties.
8. Establish and maintain positive communications with all stakeholders.


Agree to meet as a committee on a regular basis – after AGM you can organise when meetings will occur regularly. You have got some good people to assist you....delegate roles, tasks and aim for outcomes. Don't attempt to do it all alone.

Inform Key Stakeholders of formation of NSA local chapter –
–WA Horticultural Association, WA Ag, Dept Primary Industries (not sure what their real name is at present), Landcare groups
Promote the upcoming public meeting – newspaper, radio, email flyers and community networks – thought you could do this through the Country Hour on ABC radio.

Who is presently on your committee Ian...who is helping you? Who is the present Secretary after Belle Moore's resignation?

As I said earlier, you cannot do ALL of this on your own and run a farm.

Its about getting a good team to help and assist and who are committed like yourself and Jodie.

At present 99.99% of people helping Peter are VOLUNTEERS.

Until the E & T programs are rolled out, NO one will have the proper skill set, knowledge and understanding of NSF.

I like you cant wait for that day to happen. I like you
have been told that I will be part of a endorsed NSF education program and will be "licenced" to consult in the name of NSF but this does not seem to be occuring


It can't come soon enough.

Julene
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Brisbane, and Chatsworth, via Gympie QLD

Postby Julene » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:56 pm

Hi Ian,
Like many others, I have always admired your posts for their passion and enthusiasm and eloquence. Now I sense that you are very disheartened.

Can I echo Duane's thoughts that you (and your wife, who must be an absolute gem!) are just one unit who have limits? The responsibility needs to be spread around.

I gather that you are referring to "Dyard", the block in the heart of wheat country. I can understand why you have been very committed to working on this, perhaps to the detriment of your own place, because it offers a chance to really show-case NSF in wheat country.

You wrote in Sep last year about Peter Andrew's visit to Dyard in August. I got the impression that some plans were discussed, including countouring, and that there was general enthusiasm from the group to go forward with this, so I am wondering what has happened in the interim?

Did you ever get the plans on paper? Have you still got contact details for all the people who were interested? I am wondering whether you could get everyone together for the AGM and get a commitment that each person would contribute a day or so of their time (or some money in lieu of?) to get the Dyard project off the ground. If you had 200 people, a lot could be achieved ....

Perhaps you could then just have a supervisory role, under PA's guidance. Is there any option for getting assistance through Work For the Dole??

Duane, as has been mentioned elsewhere, the big holdup for training and licensing is getting private money to run the program. Any idea on a time frame?

I'm wondering if there is anything to be learnt from permaculture, which is frequently running Permaculture Design Courses, which are Austudy accredited, I believe. How did they get started? What funding do they receive? I am looking into doing a course in Brisbane later this year - it will be 1 day a week for 12 weeks and the fee is around $1000. Should I try to find more information?

Please don't give up hope, Ian :)
Regards,
Julene

Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Postby Ian James » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:39 pm

Thanks for your support.

I will follow your advice Duane.

I'm not even sure my farm will remain viable untill the end of the year.

It's difficult to look ahead.

Cheers

alan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:36 pm

Postby alan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:13 pm

As I started this thread I had better make a reply to what has been going on recently.

Duane, thanks for making the effort to keep the forum more active.

It is nice to see some interest in this thread being generated even if the talk has strayed slightly off topic, however it is obvious that people are becoming disillusioned. Ian James is a prime example, a man who has shared all his experience and worked hard for PA, all for no reward. Ian is unable to spread the word unless he does it for free; sorry but this is not the way to keep people motivated.

We are now seeing the discontent produced by secrecy and obfuscation. If the information is so difficult to find folks lose interest going to 27 different websites to try and find some snippet which is new and helpful.

If PA wants to make money from his knowledge he needs to become more professional, think like a businessman and not a farmer and, open up his ideas to the world. Secrecy does nothing. PA needs to invest in professional business management and pay that management well. If he doesn't have the money himself, he should find and convince investors who do.

I feel this justifies my case for consolidation of the official PA websites.

But until PA changes his business practices this will not happen; right Duane?

Tip of the day: Get rid of the posts and ban this link spammer:

http://naturalsequencefarming.com/forum ... ile&u=1015

jenni
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: holbrooknsw

Postby jenni » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:08 pm

Can somebody tell me what this supposed secrecy is all about. What secrecy?

duane
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Postby duane » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:32 am

Alan

Appreciate your comments.

This is an open forum, anyone can join from anywhere in the world...there are no real checks, its all a virtual world, with a few exceptions.

I cannot disagree with a lot of what has been said, in truth.

In attempting to make this forum come alive and dynamic, I have engaged with all and sundry and on my own part been open and honest.

Sometimes, there have been questions go unanswered....the truth is I may not have had what I perceived to be the right answer.

This forum has been a learning process for me and others.

It has been both organic and dynamic. It is run by a volunteer and contributed by to by volunteers.

There has NEVER been a directive from PA that the information given out be limited or restrained. There is NO secret to my overwhelming support for NSF and to Peter himself.

There never has been any intention to obfuscate.

There is a restriction, however, on our capacity to give out certain information because much of it is against the law ( and many people are aware that this is the case) but we are in a process of identifying all the legal blockages, state by state, in a bid to have them overturned.

Anarchy has never been a successful process.

Jodi James
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:36 pm
Location: Avon West Australia

Re: How can this site be a beacon for NSF?

Postby Jodi James » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:14 am

I really feel that we are loosing the real picture here....It's not about who is making money...It's about getting off our arses and making a difference. If we all did a little bit on our farms and changed our practices that we have been blindly advised to by our farm advisors and started to look on this world wide web, the answers are staring at you right in the face. "Soil food Web". Google it, and that is the answer to all our problems, but we contine to kill it day in and day out, and now we don't have a balance...We are going in Reverse, instead of moving forward.

Alan, please don't take what I am going to say the wrong way. If you think that this website is heading in the wrong direction, I have a question for you....Are you going to give up your time for free to fix it?

I think maybe it does needs a revamp to stimulate more interest, but we are all just batlers here trying to make a difference and take on a little bit of Peters passion for making a change. It's hard to get the message out there. I'm sure if the NSF name had the word sex in it people would listen. Eventually farmers will have to change, as I know I have been forced into a position to make that change, especially this year having to put everything on the line to give it one last go....I've broken that dependence on the Fertiliser Companies, and looked for my own way of growing this crop, but I must say if I hadn't read Peters book, I wouldn't be farming and perservering like I am now. I know I will get there because I have faith in what I am doing and a passion along with my husband Ian to make a difference.

There are too many knockers out there and not enough Dooers!

We need some movers and shakers too! Time for a positive change :D
Open mindedness opens wisdom

greg
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:43 pm
Location: Cooks Gap (Gulgong)(Mudgee)

Re: How can this site be a beacon for NSF?

Postby greg » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:14 pm

Gidday all
I have been tickering with this NSF idea for a few years now and this year we have had a lot of rain. For a while very little happened, however I seem to have plant growth and water dispersion going everywhere at the moment and i look forward to when it dries up again to see how well I have managed to get the water in the ground and clay patchs. It looks impressive. I have invited several people to have a look at what I am doing and some neighbours have expressed an interest in taking a look. So far I have only 1 person take a look and he seemed very impressed with the results, but have not had any local farmers take me up on my offer unfortunately.
I have asked Duane if it would be worth while to have displays at field days here in Mudgee, it may be worth while in your local area to try the same.
Just a thought.

Greg Dunnicliff
Mudgee area


Return to “All General Questions about NSF”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest