How can this site be a beacon for NSF?

Any questions or comments you have about Natural Sequence Farming processes. These could include general questions or ones about your personal problems.

PLEASE NOTE :
We do not endorse any answers from anyone in this forum except Peter Andrews himself.

Please remember, Natural Sequence Farming has to be tailored for your specific problem and to follow general advice may create more problems for you.

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Post by webmaster » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:12 am

Greg,

Your 'wow' attitude is not appreciated.

If there is a 'Them and Us' attitude it is those who 'create' posts about the landscape it's problems and cures and those who read and criticise or those who read and hopefully benefit from them, no other.

This forum is for those who wish to know more about Peter Andrews' Natural Sequence Farming and in an overview sense get some idea of what it is about.

It is not a place where you will get answers to your individual problems, was never intended to be and will never be that way.

Every problem has a different solution. Consequently a solution for one could be devastation for another.

If anyone want a true NSF answer to their problems, do as many others have and are lining up to do... have Peter have a thorough look at it and give a proper diagnoses.

References made to make the site better are looked at, however the forum is not for that purpose.

If you have ideas you are welcome to email them with specifics and detail so more time is not wasted chasing subjective ideas.

Rather than I close it, I ask that this subject fiinsh and my suggestion of email contact is followed through.

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The Forum for Peter Andrew's Natural Sequence Farming

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Post by gwmbox » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:41 am

webmaster wrote:Your 'wow' attitude is not appreciated.
Sorry it was just a response of shock as your response about 'they can add a forum if they like' was unexpected and not what I would have called constructive. Sorry if it offended.
This forum is for those who wish to know more about Peter Andrews' Natural Sequence Farming and in an overview sense get some idea of what it is about.
Excellent, however what some of us are saying is that the information to do exactly this is not easily accessible or organised in a way that makes it easy to follow.

Please do not take what I (and others) have said as being a negatiive. As I said before I want to 'Help' and I also recognise the help that has already been provided by many volunteers like yourself and I know how much time it can take up. However having more help surely is a good thing? Especially as it is purely for the purpose of getting more people to know about NSF.
It is not a place where you will get answers to your individual problems, was never intended to be and will never be that way.
While I can appreciate that, the site can simply have a standard disclaimer that it does not endorse or recommend any comments/posts by any member and that all replies are in good faith only. The sharing of individual experiences and the asking of individual questions can help and does help discussions to take place. This will assist people to learn and to get ideas that maybe they had not thought of. Part of the learning process is also a trial and error process, what works for one does not work for all as you have rightly stated, however the information and replies as part of a discussion still add to a wealth of knowledge that can be useful to many.
If anyone want a true NSF answer to their problems, do as many others have and are lining up to do... have Peter have a thorough look at it and give a proper diagnoses.
Great idea, how many are in the line and how much can PA really do? If I may take Duane's comment about 60,000 books being sold, if that represents 60,000 people either still or previously interested in NSF then that is an awful lot of people in a line. The swell of support for the NSF principles was obviously there, I am simply seeking a way to use that swell of support in a constructive way to assist everyone, again to help grow NSF.
References made to make the site better are looked at, however the forum is not for that purpose.
Good to see that they are being read, and hopefully taken on board. Purpose or not I would have thought constructive feedback would be welcomed in the open forum so that all forum members/visitors can add their feedback instead of repeating it over and over.
If you have ideas you are welcome to email them with specifics and detail so more time is not wasted chasing subjective ideas.
Again please take the comments made as constructive feedback and not as a negative, you and every other volunteer needs to be supported, I (and I assume others too) am simply trying to offer more help if needed, if help is not required that is fine, but the offer still stands. Emailing you instead of posting on the forum keeps the feedback isolated and not open for discussion, the open discussion encourages others to comment and give their ideas. The original poster while with all good intentions may not have given the best suggests, or maybe they did - that is why open discussions are a great feedback tool.
Rather than I close it, I ask that this subject fiinsh and my suggestion of email contact is followed through.
I truly hope that you do not do this, as it will be a great shame for the thread to close and further discussion stopped, though I respect your right to do so if you so choose.

Again please take my comments previously and in the above as a feedback to constructively help.

Thanks

Greg
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Post by gwmbox » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:47 am

duane wrote:Greg?Alan? or someone? familiar with the Joomla software may like to contact me to discuss.
My offer to help still stands as previously advised.
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Post by duane » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:24 am

Greg and Alan

Supply me with a phone contact no. I would like to discuss. Email duane@nsfarming.com

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Post by Julian » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:51 am

All great input guys! One consolidated Site will help us all. But my concern is that PA needs help on the ground, because there is a lot of ground out there. We need to get some training courses happening, some little apprentices. PA could charge good money to train, and this would ensure his vision stays alive.
Time is of the essence. (Training is mentioned that it is in progress on the main site, but haven't heard anything for years)

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Post by Shirley Henderson » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:14 pm

Hello Duane and Lonnie, I believe what Alan and Greg are speaking of is a coordinated effort where everything is available and easily accessed from the one point. A group of people whos efforts (be they employees or volunteers) can be discussed, understood and found to be working in the same direction. I agree that it is spread out and so are the discussions., I have raised the issue in the past about plants and finding infornation easily accessed especially since they have so many differnet common names and not everyone knows their botanic names. Maybe I can help in that regard. But come on lets work together guys or the support will dissipate.

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Post by Nimrodel » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:03 pm

I just want to 2nd? 3rd? 4th? the comments about training being needed. Peter obviously has an amazing mind and understanding of our landscape but lets face it, he is aging and wont be with us forever. If he doesnt pass on this knowledge in a complete and detailed way it will die with him and everything he has been through will be for naught. I can understand him guarding his knowledge for various reasons, but for the sake of our environment it NEEDS to be shared!

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Training Program

Post by Julene » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:49 am

Hi Nimrodel and Julian,

In this discussion http://naturalsequencefarming.com/forum ... 9&start=15,
Duane wrote about how the former Governor General, Mike Jeffries, is working to overcome obstacles that NSF faces.

Here is Duane's answer to some of my specific questions about MJ, including about the Training Program, which I believe is absolutely vital to get off the ground.


----0000----

Julene

In answer to your questions:
Quote:
are you aware of any strategies that MJ may be working on to help farmers overcome these obstacles? For example, if MJ can get changes at the bureaucratic level, will we see more articles in rural newspapers etc outlining Peter’s ideas? Will there be funding for the NSF training program, which would mean more people to go out and run workshops and train farmers? Will there be positive encouragement for farmers to join up, or more punitive measures?

In the bigger picture, do you think Peter will get a chance to implement his ideas for the Murray-Darling?


The former GG has formed this group, Outcomes Australia, to deal with all the issues you have described. He has a great understanding of how both bureaucrats and governments work and he is the one person who leadership and insights that can bring this together.

After successive unnsuccessful application for funding for the NSF training courses we have decided to get it funded from the private sector. Much has already been written and done now what is required is some $$$ to complete the process.

Mike's program is hoping to have 50,000 farmers trained over the next 10 to more sustainable agricultural practices.....inc NSF, WM, BD PC etc etc etc

My personal belief about Peter helping the MDB? I seriously believe if any one person is capable of restoring functionality to the iconic ecosystem, Peter could. Will he get the opportunity? I truly hope so, because its the raison d'etre of why I got into this NSF journey.

----0000----


BTW, I don't think Peter holds his knowledge close to himself, but rather that he is absolutely brilliant at it, as you say, and there is no-one quite like him! I agree he can't be everywhere at once and is getting older, so other people need to be trained up, rather like a prophet with his disciples. At the moment he has Duane as his right hand man, but clearly that is not enough relative to the need, especially as more members join!

As you can see from the above, sharing of Peter's knowledge is definitely planned but it is now down to the pragmatics of money (!!!), and so on.

Regards,
Julene

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Post by gwmbox » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:02 pm

Good to see this thread still going.

I'd like to add some additional reasons why the whole web site and NSF itself needs to be more open and delivered better to the wider community. As a new land owner I have also subscribed to some of our local farm papers and magazines, some of which are national papers.

While reading many of them I will quite often see the advert, the article, the discussion, the editorial, the letters and so on about how to kill weeds, over fertilise and plough the land, cropping, you know the standard way of farming. However I have yet to see ANY article, letter, discussion, advertisement or ANYTHING that is even remotely NSF, be it partially or wholly or even slightly towards NSF, be it as alternative farming - anything - there is nothing or at least I have not noticed it.

So my question is, without a coordinated collective approach to drum up some 'ongoing' enthusiasm about NSF and its principles and some training, some guides, some tutorials, some answers to specific questions, user discussions and answers on the forums, open discussions (for the good and bad) and some case studies that we can all read, discuss, learn from, etc, how will NSF EVER become accepted as an alternative by the masses? I mean at this stage it is little more than a one man show...

I feel I have said my piece in a number of posts in this thread, and that will be the end of it, I will now hide back under my rock and never venture out again until I can see evidence that NSF is being managed for the greater good rather than for individual greatness.

Thanks for my added rant and here is hoping the admin does not delete it :)

EDIT: Replies to my post have needed me to come back out of hiding :wink:
Last edited by gwmbox on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jenni » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:35 pm

You haven't done enough reading in the right places there is tons of literature out there that don't have the NSF title but link in pretty well. Alan savoury. Masanobu Fukuoka. Farm journal. Heaps of stuff out there on successful cell grazing.evergraze program not 'alternative' but pretty good stuff. Google STIPA nsw group involved in promoting native grass and it's management. Colin Seiss pasture cropping. Keyline. Permaculture.grasslands Australia has heaps of non chemical pasture management material. Small farms mag that comes in weekly times I have seen reference to PA.also read your farm that's where it's all at :)

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Post by duane » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:39 pm

Alan and Greg, you may have seen this website, perhaps, if not check out http://www.tarwynpark.com this is not an official NSF site but it has many of the attributes you both have spoken of by way of improvement to the NSF websites.

The person in Singapore who 'owns' the site might like to come onto to the NSF Forum so that we can thank him for his support. He obviously watches the site closely.

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Post by gwmbox » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:44 pm

duane wrote:Alan and Greg, you may have seen this website, perhaps, if not check out http://www.tarwynpark.com this is not an official NSF site but it has many of the attributes you both have spoken of by way of improvement to the NSF websites.
Maybe I see things different as all I see is a site that has been made to generate money from NSF through Google advertising and the like, it simply has copied info from the various NSF sites and put into what appears to be a better (slightly) looking web site - which is a positive I suppose?
The person in Singapore who 'owns' the site might like to come onto to the NSF Forum so that we can thank him for his support. He obviously watches the site closely.
Again I see things a bit different, why thank him for pulling search engine rankings, visitors and the like from your main sites to his?

If he really wanted to help he would offer the domain name used to PA to be parked on top of either a .com.au site with the same name - (why has this domain not been purchased to control it?) - or better yet parked over a more dedicated NSF.com.au site :)
jenni wrote:You haven't done enough reading in the right places
Thanks Jenni, I will do some more looking around and reading :P

Though it would be even better to be able to come to a single web site that has everything there, including every article EVER placed in any other publication about NSF or PA.. now that would be a great reference :)

EDIT: hmm seems NSF.com.au is in use by a finance business, shame as we all refer to it as NSF, maybe we need to stop doing that?
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Post by jenni » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:17 pm

While it is entirely noble to act without renumeration if you couldn't make money out of NSF noone would do it. Shouldn't we farmers be allowed to make money as well as care for our land. I'm sorry but the idea of the noble peasant is a bit on the nose to me.the best way for NSF to shift from 'alternative' to 'mainstream' farming is for people to make money out of it. I don't think it is so important who owns these ideas it's important for them to be practiced.

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Post by duane » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:39 pm

Greg said:
Maybe I see things different as all I see is a site that has been made to generate money from NSF through Google advertising and the like
Greg, you're spot on there. But, as you know, its registered as a .com site and we can do nothing.

This person has over 550 websites doing exactly as you said. He will link whatever he wants to with impunity, but in the end, it all brings people back to the real NSF sites.......let him earn some $$....Everybody needs to eat.

He is obviously lurking and reading this and might want to take up your suggestion:
If he really wanted to help he would offer the domain name used to PA to be parked on top of either a .com.au site with the same name - (why has this domain not been purchased to control it?) - or better yet parked over a more dedicated NSF.com.au site
I still believe in the old adage....'any publicity is good publicity'.

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Post by Stringybark » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:46 pm

Spot on Duane.
Whatever gets people thinking, talking, practicing NSF.

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