Working with Pigs to upgrade your land.

Any questions or comments you have about Natural Sequence Farming processes. These could include general questions or ones about your personal problems.

PLEASE NOTE :
We do not endorse any answers from anyone in this forum except Peter Andrews himself.

Please remember, Natural Sequence Farming has to be tailored for your specific problem and to follow general advice may create more problems for you.

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Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Working with Pigs to upgrade your land.

Post by Adrian » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:24 pm

I have been on and off the land all my life, firstly as a child living on a dairy farm for 9 years, and now working with pigs and cattle on bosses farm. I first told my boss about Peter after reading BFTB at first he thought he was mad about having weeds. So i gave him the book to read and said have it as long as you need to read it. At the time when i gave him the book i thought it would be left on the table, but to my amazement i found out h is reading a chapter every time while he waits for the truck to fill with fuel.
I must say it has been a real buzz of late talking about Peter and his ideas to my boss and now he can see how it all fits into a cycle of life on the land. His biggest compliment about Peter is his carbon going into the ground. As we have a piggery and the amount of pig poo it produces is perfect for carbon and other benifits. He is about to plant corn to use for the sows feed and when he was asked by a consultant how much fertilizer he would be putting onto his crop he said with a smile none. My boss said the guy went nuts until he told him that he will be using pig poo!
The consultant went back to find out what is the benifit of pig poo and was amazed almost three times better than fertilizer and thats without the carbon input.
My boss has been on the pig game for over 25 years, and has a major role in the industry, and after 25 years he has built up his soil from sand to a very productive top soil. He has even told me last week that he thinks its time to plant some more trees. So i used google maps toget a picture of the farm to show where we would be best to plants trees, top of the sand hills for starters which would also be used as wind breaks in plots but not as strips.
So my question is "Whats the best way for NSF in a low rainfall with sand hills?"
Always keep an open mind

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:16 pm

Something i reliased while reading Peters books was about mulch piles. If you have a piggery in your area that uses Eco sheds, (these sheds are used with straw to house pigs in) you can try and get some of the fresh pig waste mix with straw. If you get the fresher waste there is more liquid combined in with the straw.
You could use this on your high bare patches with piles aleast a meter high. also with this height of mulch and fresh compost the heat inside the compost is enough to decompose small animals that you can find after road trama. In some cases even all of the bones of the animal turn to dust inside the compost.
Always keep an open mind

duane
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Post by duane » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:21 am

Adrian....seems to me you have got it all pretty much covered.

Yours could be a fantastic case study on this forum, like Ian James' one in WA.Ian has now formed a local NSA Chapter in the Avon and is looking at ways to implement NSF on his 5000 acre?? wheat farm

Please keep us posted of your experiences. I just get the feeling yours could be a great nsf journey.

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:10 pm

Thanks Duane,
In my area of the country, farming is based around irragation mainly with the flood system in lazered bays with drains at the bottom of the bays. Which after that goes into a drainage dam where you can either let it go back into the water coasre as in a creek, or be recycled to irragate the bays again.
I was looking at Peters ideas of how the country works in steps, with ponds at the end of each step. Is it possible that you can use these lazered bays with Peters 1/3 system. I was thinking that the top 1/3 of the bays could have a biodiversty of plants and trees. At the start of the 2/3 or middle third of the bays this is where we could have out contours of mulch which will then fertilize our crops sew in or pastures, which would be on a rotational basis between crops and pastures. With the bottom third being where all the run off of the middle part of the bay, collects the fertility and is collected with reeds, rushes and grasses with the least amount of grazng happening on this part of the bay. I was hoping if this system would work so that we can still irrigate but also with this system use less water as the moisture would hold longer in the ground.
I understand that peters way is not using irrigation but if we slowed the water going over the bays would it make it better or worse :?: Even if it came to the point that we use smaller outlets from the channel. :)
Always keep an open mind

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:27 pm

It's been about two weeks since the 2 inches rain over 5 days fell.
The bindii that started to grow before the rain was stunted in growth, after 10 days the ground had dried out and know the bindii is growing at a rate of almost itself a day.
I have been keeping an eye on the coverage around the pig waste and have notice a bit about where and why the bindii will grow.
Because of the no foot traffic around the pggery, the bindii has not grown where the dead grasses have shaded and covered the ground.
On inspection around the pig waste itself something i first thought wouldn't happened has. To find the bindii growing right next to the mound of pig waste, but i must say the ground has been dug up a while ago with the tractor going over it while putting the pig waste in place.
All the bindiii is growing on the sandhills where there is no irrigation onto the ground. Looking into the pasture paddocks where the cattle spend most of there time the bindii isn't growing, this is mainly due because of the moisture in the ground. Even thou this year the paddocks have not been watered because the shotage of irragation water and the price of water, there is still plenty of moisture because of the carbon and fertilizer from the pig waste, that we have built up over the years and been spread over the paddocks.
Always keep an open mind

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:50 pm

It's been almost a month since my last report about the natural sequence around the piggery.
The bindii that started to grow has now started to flower, it won't be long before i start pulling them outa my soxs and also spreading more through the tractor tyres and boots around the farm.
We have had an unusally good summer rains lately and the marshmallow plants have thrived and covered in the lower areas of the sandhill gullys. Giving good ground coverage to shade the soil throughout the dry summer period.
I have been talking to the boss about if i could use the horse paddock as a trail site for Peters ideas. The horse paddock is located at the bottom of the sandhill with the piggery sitting at the top and the main track around a third from the top. Noticing that with the heavy rains we have alot of run off from the roof tops of the sheds of the piggery and the tracks around it. Bringing this up at the xmas breakup tea with everyone was good talking point for everyone that hasn't gotten up to speed with what the boss and i have been talking about with Pets ideas of Natural sequence.
As soon as the sons heard about what i wanted to do with the horse paddock one made a comment of "If you can make money out of the marshmallow plants then id like to see that". For sure i knew that he wanted me to be wrong and for he to be right that there is no hope for the horse paddock. That just got me more willing to set out how i would start the ball rolling instead of just giving up. At first i said that i wanted to dig drains along the fence line which would be in the last third of the sandhill. It's not perfect but thats what i have to work with. But then i reliased that the drain wouldn't hold the water evenly along the fence line. So then i thought bugger me i have tons of pig waste from the Econ sheds that i could build mounds and have sections where the water could be trapped and the move undernearth the pigwaste.
Getting into the gully part of the paddock id do the same thing where water would drain off the track but also use some of the suckers of redgums that are thriving down the back off the property to use as a natural tree guard from the horses. By placing the cut down suckers in a way of having the top of the trees facing up towards the gradient of the paddock and using the natural way the trees grow lying on the ground i can catch more of the matter that will flow down along the gully in the fork of the branches.
I'm thinking of using Peters rule of thumb of thirds in the gully, with one third for grasses first then two thirds of the suckers with the pig waste mounds at the end of the suckers.
Hopefully very soon they say go for it, as there is nothing to loose and anything to gain from this. Once this happens i will get some photos up before i start so that everyone can see what im upto, and then more as i progress each week. It may only be about 5 or 6 acres first but it could and hopefully a start of a new begining.
On a different note for the xmas cheer, i found out another good reason for redgums, (I think Peter might have a bit of a chuckle on this) it makes bloody good RUM. Yeah got a bottle of Bundy Red from Santa!! :lol:
Always keep an open mind

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:36 pm

Well i said it won't be long before the bindii seeds start, and they have! The early shoots have got there seeds growing, and im glad i wear boots unlike the poor animals.
Today was the first real stinker of the hot wheather, 39 degrees. You could almost see the plant life wilter as the day went on ( grasses and weeds).
Had my first phone call with Peter on Saturday afternoon, i felt i could talk all day and pick his brain at what i needed to do. He was so open in letting me know what we all needed to do it was like reading a crystal ball.
One thing i didn't think would connect was how Peter seen the trouble in the credit market and farming. In one light having this credit crunch is a good thing for having farmers looking at better ways of managingthere farms. But as Peter told me it could all be to late if they wait until there is no money left to finance tthe farms opperation. It made alot of sense!!!!!! looking back in the past as we seen farms getting bigger and less farmers in the game. All this meant was more work for the same money, digging more to plant extra crops, having extra stock to feed, and all that happened was less time to relax. Was this why we fell in love in what we do in the country? No, its meant to be the relaxed lifestyle, and spending more time with our family. Not less!
By the time we reliase that there isn't enough hours in a day to enjoy life, the farms will be just in the same way! eg. Out of money + no carbon left + Exshausted + nothing will grow = Doom and gloom.
As Peter pointed out in his books, you used to be able to put in $1 into your farm and get back $10. Almost every farmer i talk to tells me the same thing, the cost of running your farm has now become so much that they start to wonder why they are doing it. But then i remember my Dad telling me something about how farming has changed, when he was share farming on the dairy he used to have 2 or 3 yeara worth of hay in his hay shed for the low rainfall years. This meant that he could still have the same amount of cows and make the extra money because other farmers sold off there cows as they didn't have the feed for them. It made sense because when the rains came with plenty of feed he didn't need to buy extra feed or extra cows. He cut his costs in the long term, and also the land wasn't under stress and could keep going on as normal!
Sorry about the rambling but when i think of these things i think i need to let them out!
My Dad and Peter where sort of in the same mind frame, the only difference is that i can see that Peters knowlege of the land has a better and more suitable way in any time wet or dry!
Another thing Peter pointed out to me was about the Red Gums in my area. Mistletoe growing on the Gums slowly killing the trees, i knew about this disease on the trees but didn't think to much until Peter brought it up and i looked around my area. I had no idea how bad it is getting, almost every second tree (30 years or older) had this cancer on them along any roadside i looked at. This is not good at all, yep it all looks good to the untrained eye until you start doing some sums about it. And now the only trees i will not be planting is the gums. They germanate well enough them self without my help planting more. So im looking around seeing what trees grow in my climate with low rainfall that is going to benifit the soil better instead of having gum trees that after growing big enough drop to much litter that the soil cannot mulch in well enough.
I also told Peter that i know my local goverment representive quite well, with that Peter asked me to ask him if he could come along with any other people interested in his ways. Well i di see him the day after and i had to ask him. I told that im also wanting to get hold of my local Landcare group and ask them all so if they would be interested. He sounded as thou he will come but we need to set up a time so he will be able to come along. So my next assingment is getting hold of the Landcare group. If this all goes well im hopeful that there could be a good amount of people to aleast see Peters farm.
Always keep an open mind

novaris
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Mooroolbark, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Post by novaris » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:36 pm

I also told Peter that i know my local goverment representive quite well, with that Peter asked me to ask him if he could come along with any other people interested in his ways.
Would it be possible to let me know when this is happening? Although I am in Melbourne I would be interested in attending.
Everything in moderation, including moderation.

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:43 pm

Novaris, once i get a full go ahead with ny local landcare and goverment rep, you will be welcome to come along. Even if with these people not being interested im sure i will go for myself in the end. So time will tell.
Always keep an open mind

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:06 pm

Here are some photos i have posted using Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34414525@N03/3201018230/

These photos are of the horse paddock that i have bee talking about. I have tried to give an image of what the paddock looks like with the captions on top of the photos.
Hopefully as i improve the paddock i will remember to take photos as i go!
Always keep an open mind

duane
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Post by duane » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:53 pm

Hey Adrian

Keep a photo log....its so important....as a picture paints a 1000 words.

I can see why the boys made the bet...I for one want to see you win it.

I have seen deserts like your horse paddock transformed in 6-12 months....many of them worse than your photos...some were like a moonscape. When you do the things you have talked about in other posts the results will come.

Trace your journey here for the world to see...the proof of the pudding will help others to learn either a positive or negative lesson. Its all good.

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:15 pm

Thanks Duane!
Yep my first thing to do is block these drains that lead to the dam. Hoefully in the end i can fill this dam in, we have water troughs for the animals so realy there is no need for a dam of that size in such a small paddock.
I for one want to win this bet, and its not for money! Even thou the boys will make a little more of it in the end without spending more in the future. It's all about making a point of Peters system. That reminds me of a quote that i once heard in business, "Systems work, people don't"
Always keep an open mind

duane
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Post by duane » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:24 pm

"Always keep an open mind"...that saying is so apt when it comes to Peter's knowledge.

When I first met Peter just after Australian Story aired in June 2005, I said to myself when i got to his farm gate..."I am going to leave, as best I can, all my biases at the farm gate"....it was the best thing I could have done.

And its why your mantra rings true for me.

Adrian
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Northern Victoria Shepparton Area

Post by Adrian » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:54 am

How time gets by when you are so busy!
Havn't had the chance to get to the horse paddock as yet, but have noticed that by not slashing the paddock the plants are still there even after the hot summer spell we have had, meaning still showing the greeness!
We have been busy with the cropping paddocks getting them ready. This week we have just completed spreading approx 2,000,000 kgs of pig waste onto the paddocks.
Here are are some pictures using Flckr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36399576@N08/3352668382/
Always keep an open mind

novaris
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Mooroolbark, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Post by novaris » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:13 am

Yey we love pictures :D
Everything in moderation, including moderation.

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