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Any questions or comments you have about Natural Sequence Farming processes. These could include general questions or ones about your personal problems.

PLEASE NOTE :
We do not endorse any answers from anyone in this forum except Peter Andrews himself.

Please remember, Natural Sequence Farming has to be tailored for your specific problem and to follow general advice may create more problems for you.

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Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Post by Ian James » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:52 pm

Duane, what you just wrote about Patterson’s curse really has me thinking.

We have been applying rock lime to our sandy soils prior to seeding our oat crops for the last three years.

We think that it has improved the yields significantly.

We have noticed though Patterson’s curse is showing up in our area for the first time.

Three years ago I saw it for the first time, last year I found a few patches of it here and there and this year it has taken hold of whole sections of a few paddocks.

Do you know how effective its control of acidity is?

I have noted that the sheep are more than happy to graze it back to the ground each time they are introduced to the paddock.

It does recover quite quickly from grazing to send up a flower.

Is it possible that this weed pest may somehow help us to control the acidity of our hay paddocks in the future or is that wishful thinking?

muzza
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:15 am
Location: gippsland vic

Post by muzza » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:56 pm

Ian, you said earlier that your oats grew really well in acidic soil yet your yields are better now after raising ph with lime, what is the eventual target of ph and yield and do you think you will be able to achieve it with minimal inputs here on in?
You also call patto a weed pest, we are all going to take a while to change our way of thinking in this regard and i appreciate it is even more difficult in cropping systems and trying to find an end user that would be prepared to pay for "weed in"
Remember.... no success or failure need be necessarily final!

duane
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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Post by duane » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:23 am

I hope everyone had the opportunity to see todays Sunday program. Pattersons Curse was highlighted by Don Bourke and Don said 'I can't believe I missed all this ......" referring to how our landscape functioned naturally.

duane
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Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
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Post by duane » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:31 am

Ian,

I am sure it possible that this weed pest may somehow help you to control the acidity of your hay paddocks...it was put into all those hay bales, you hopefully saw, at Tarwyn Park. Those round hay bales in the program, which was filmed last week, cut 70 tonne of hay off 8 acres. No additives;No O/H irrigation.

I am going to see if Ray Martin can stream the program onto YouTube.

muzza
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:15 am
Location: gippsland vic

Post by muzza » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:28 pm

Thanks Duane, it would be great to get a copy somehow even in dvd form. Had a breakdown in the dairy and was unable to catch it. :(
Remember.... no success or failure need be necessarily final!

duane
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Post by duane » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:00 pm

I am hoping to get a dvd copy of todays Sunday program where Peter was featured.

How many of you missed the show and would like to see it on either You Tube or ninemsn??

Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Post by Ian James » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:38 pm

Me Too.

No not Rudd, I mean, I too missed the Sunday program:(

Muzza, oat crops will do well on soils where acid is affecting the yield of most other cereal and pulse crops.

I must point out that I grow wheat and lupin and barley on the same paddocks in rotation with a pasture phase thrown in for sheep.

The reason I go to the trouble of growing hay is not because of the soil acidity, first it is $$$$$$ a good cash crop, second my farm suffers frost events late in the year that can destroy grain crops just as they are ripening by freezing the head of grain and finally the physical act of mowing the paddock is a great way to control weed seed set without the use of chemicals to which many weeds are becoming resistant.

As for target pH, on these soils here it is a matter of economical achievability.

From where the acidity is affecting the yield how much can I afford to raise pH to achieve a higher yield where the benefit will cover the cost of the application?

That is the calculation.

How much is enough? When is it too expensive?

Of course it all depends on the value of the end product and the inputs, not just the chemistry.

Patterson’s curse is hard to control.

It doesn't die easily when herbicides are applied at rates used to control other in crop weeds such as wild radish, cape weed.

Patterson’s curse is a big no, no in hay as is any weed as no one wants to have a great patch of weeds grow up every where they have fed hay to their stock.

It is a concern to me as it is new to my area and I must quickly learn how to control it in crop or I will risk losing my customers.

On the other hand, if it has a beneficial use, such as raising pH then I want to understand that too!

We target a 4 T/Ha oat hay yield of extremely high quality.

This year our best was 7.5/T and our average over 350 Ha baled was 5.2 T/Ha. All premium hay destined for Japan.

muzza
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:15 am
Location: gippsland vic

Post by muzza » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:22 pm

Of course it all depends on the value of the end product and the inputs, not just the chemistry
So very true Ian, biology,structure, and yes finding an optimum point of production rather than maximum.
As for the pat curse i was't having a go but rather pointing out the fickle nature of your sector. For me as a dairyman i can be laughed at and dimissed as a loony because i don't push our pastures in the "conventional" manner but our end product is not marked down for this. I equate it thus...we are spending $100 to make 120 whereas plenty others are spending double to make the same. the only sign you may be making inroads is when neighbours start getting annoyed that we don't spray crops out etc....must be threatening their ideals in some way?????
Remember.... no success or failure need be necessarily final!

Ian James
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Avon West Australia

Post by Ian James » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:55 pm

Rose... how did you post that photo into this blog?

I think we all want to know....

rambling rose
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:30 pm

minerals

Post by rambling rose » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:29 pm

I don't know why you are asking me, I am only learning to use the computer. I asked a friend and that is how she told me, it is quite easy.
You have to download your photos into Photo bucket or some other site and they tell you what to do. It would be really good if you have broadband, I only have dial up and it is a bit slow
I did not think anyone saw that pic as no one replied

rambling rose
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:30 pm

minerals

Post by rambling rose » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:58 pm

Instructions on how to post a photo. First, you need to load your photos onto a website. The 2 most common sites people use are PhotoBucket and Aussie Chicks.
Once you've registered and uploaded your photos, for Aussie Chicks click on the photo you want to post so it's the only photo that appears on the page. Right click ON the photo and click on 'properties'. When the box pops up, copy the entire URL address that is there. An easy way is, right click ON the address and click select all. Then right click again and click copy. Close that properties box and come back here and open a new message. You can now either put that address in the 'optional image URL' box (right click in the box and click on paste) or you can click on the 'EBCode legend' at the bottom of the page to show you the code to put more than one picture per message.
If you're using Photo Bucket, find the picture you want to post. Under the photos are 3 boxes with addresses in them. Copy the address in the bottom box (IMG) and come back here and open a new (or existing) message and copy that address into the main window where you type your message. This 'code' is the same one you'd find in the EBCode legend. To add more than one photo, repeat the above steps. Only put one address per line

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